INTERVIEW:
IN THIS PHOTO: Kate Bush, shot on a Hasselblad 500, in a beautiful outtake from the 1978 Lionheart shoot/PHOTO CREDIT: Gered Mankowitz (concept by John Carder Bush)
Margaret Rasberry on Kate Bush’s Lionheart
_________
I feel every Kate Bush album…
PHOTO CREDIT: Margaret Rasberry
is a thing of value, passion, beauty, power and significance. Even if one deems it less than her best, I don’t think that makes it bad. In fact, Kate Bush has never released a bad album. There are those who definitely undervalue albums that are a lot stronger than they get credit for. Unfortunately, when it comes to ranking Bush’s ten studio albums, the same three usually end up in the bottom three: Lionheart, The Red Shoes and Director’s Cut. The former is actually one of my favourite Bush albums – I would put it about fourth or fifth in the rankings. As recording began less than five months after she released her debut, The Kick Inside, it was an impossible task to get something career-best together. Three of the ten songs on the album were newly-written: Symphony in Blue, Full House and Coffee Homeground. I think Coffee Homeground was inspired by a cab driver she might have met when in America that seemed a bit nutty (her word, not mine!). In fact, each of the ten songs has its own skin, identity and strength. Lionheart reached number six in the U.K. (five in the Netherlands, New Zealand and Norway), its second single, Wow, reached fourteen in the U.K. (and it was released off the back of The Tour of Life, 1979).
IN THIS PHOTO: Kate Bush in 1978/PHOTO CREDIT: Gered Mankowitz
As Lionheart was released in November 1978, we celebrate its forty-fifth anniversary very soon. I was thinking how nobody has really done any comprehensive podcast about the album. Not many journalist write about it and show it love – I am in the minority in that respect –, so I wanted to get the ball rolling before November and talk to someone who loves and respects Kate Bush’s second studio album. Discussing Lionheart with me is the amazing Margaret Rasberry. An ardent and passionate Kate Bush devotee, here (in her own words) is what you need to know:
“Margaret Rasberry, MA, MLIS, has been an ardent Kate Bush admirer for over a decade and continues to make new discoveries about her music and artistry. Her main fields of interest are music, film, feminist, critical race, and queer theory. You can find her work on mollywoodwrites@wordpress.com and she has been published in print in Film Matters Magazine and in http://TheFilmStage.com as a contributing writer”.
Someone who probably knows more about Kate Bush’s magnificent and under-valued 1978 gem, it was a pleasure and enriching experiencing discovering what this album means to her. I know that after reading this interview you will think differently about Lionheart. It is such a compelling, important and fantastic album that deserve more love. It is a phenomenal work that…
MAKES you go WOW!
________________
Hi Margaret! Before we discuss a specific Kate Bush album, when did you first discover her music?
I first discovered Kate’s music in my late-teens; interestingly enough on a comedy website with a listicle called 5 People Cheated Out of The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and Kate Bush was number 1 on that list - and the only female artist on that list. The only artist on that list that has still not been inducted is Jethro Tull, so make of that what you will. The article also introduced me to my favorite album of hers, The Dreaming, which I discovered later had a wider, more positive reception in America than the U.K.
What was it about Kate that grabbed your attention and stuck in your heart?
Growing up in the southern part of the United States, I grew up with a sense of having to conform to standards I didn’t agree with. Much like Kate, I didn’t like high school (which is basically secondary schooling in the U.K.). And even growing up with a pretty progressive family to support you, you feel like an outsider if you don’t fit that heteronormative and shallow worldview. And it's reflected in so much of our music - especially in the late-2010s; American Pop/Rock music - during that time, which I did not enjoy - unlike my peers -, especially as a burgeoning bisexual realizing I preferred girls, and receiving some disgust from some of my peers when I came out to them. The first year of college was much better, but still I found myself not really fitting in. I instead found myself diving into books and movies, including the works of Jane Austen, The Brontë Sisters, Virginia Woolf, Thomas Pynchon, and watching the films of David Lean, Jean Cocteau, Michael Powell, and Emeric Pressburger, along with other great directors. So when I first heard Kate, it was like a lightning strike inside my mind.
“That vulnerability and beauty of the storytelling resonated with me, as I felt so alone and isolated away from home for the first time when I first heard her sing”
Here was this woman singing about swapping genders with her presumably male partner, singing about the adverse effects of colonialism in aboriginal tribes in Australia with an Australian accent, going mad after seeing the face of God, performing as the ghost of Catherine Earnshaw, admitting to being afraid in Hounds of Love, which is something you never hear an artist admit. That vulnerability and beauty of the storytelling resonated with me, as I felt so alone and isolated away from home for the first time when I first heard her sing. Her work on trying to comprehend the world around her resonated with me and led to a deeper understanding of how I perceived the world and humanity itself. The modulations, the ontologically strange performances, all of it just mesmerized me. And when I discovered she was a charming and nice person in real life, my love for her work deepened.
We are discussing Lionheart. Bush’s second studio album, it never received the love it deserved. Why do you think this is?!
I think it’s because it was not as fine-tuned as her debut, since The Kick Inside was worked on from the time she was fifteen to the age of nineteen. And I am sure EMI and her sponsor David Gilmour wanted her debut to be something special, and Wuthering Heights was this awe-inspiring debut single that, as you know, she had to fight the producers to have as her first single. I also think with all the promotion such as performing in Japan, on Top of the Pops, Efteling and more, it’s so much to tackle, especially a young woman in her late-teens. And since she wrote hundreds of songs when she was younger and EMI wanted to capitalize on her, I think they pushed her to do push out another album. But to quote one advertisement for Symphony in Blue: “Kate Bush’s B-sides are better than your A-sides!” .
Despite it being rushed in a sense, I think it is an amazing album. Three new songs she wrote, Symphony in Blue, Coffee Homeground and Full House, are among my favourites. Able to create weird and touchingly beautiful songs with that sort of pressure, how do you think Lionheart would have sounded if Bush had been given more space and time?
I agree. Especially for being a sophomore album, it’s a great one. I remember reading a Missy Elliott quote telling young rappers to not slack off on the second album cause that’s when you can experiment more. But Kate unfortunately did not have that option. Though she herself admitted she felt it was more adventurous compared to her debut. I think she would have been allowed to modulate her voice to sound a little deeper cause I feel that EMI wanted her to keep that coquettish way of speaking, especially for the ostensibly male listeners, since I think there was this desire for female singers to be sexy overall and not to negate that factor. And Kate’s performances on Top of the Pops and Saturday Night Live reflect that image. Maybe to some as a detriment, but she still exudes this innocent sensuality that’s so Kate. I think if more time would have been given to her, she could have implemented the Fairlight, cause she was first introduced to it in 1979 I believe when it first came out. It’s fascinating to imagine that album with the Fairlight.
“I also love “Full House” because it heavily reflects anxiety and neurodivergent thinking. And having ADHD, I could really connect with “Imagination sets in, then all the voices begin”
I adore Coffee Homeground where she affects a Lotte Lenya-esque performance that’s hilarious and endearing to listen to. I feel she had to fight for that one since it’s not ‘sexy’. I also love Full House because it heavily reflects anxiety and neurodivergent thinking. And having ADHD, I could really connect with “Imagination sets in, then all the voices begin”. I have a particular fondness for In Search of Peter Pan; a song that Björk has brought up as one of her favorites as well. And it’s look at nostalgia and continuing Kate’s fascination with childhood and how people with that childlike innocence navigate the world and try to comprehend it. Also, the ending with the bit from Pinocchio’s When You Wish Upon a Star is a beautiful end to the piece. And I’m biased, cause Pinocchio is one of my favorite animated films.
Although Bush assisted production on Lionheart, it was Andrew Powell who helmed it. I think Bush could have produced solo. Do you think this frustration was a big reason why she co-produced Never for Ever (with Jon Kelly) and split with Powell?
I think there was that frustration, definitely. Though this is pure conjecture, I believe that Powell never really got the “Kate Factor” as well as he should have. And Kate always exuded this feminine energy in her works, from slyly implying menstruation with the lunar cycle, to performing famous female roles in her songs, to describing sexual relations in such a beautiful way. And that does not even bring in The Ninth Wave or The Sensual World. The queer theorist Dr D-M Withers called this the “Bushian Feminine Subject” in their book, Adventures in Kate Bush and Theory. And there’s a definite shift from Lionheart to Never for Ever. I think Kate felt that the first two albums were not just her albums, but her and Powell’s, and it obscured her true vision of what they should be. Powell preferred this spontaneous approach, which Kate did not approve of. Jon Kelly was one of the first people to come out and tell her that after her first album she was never going to be able to walk down the street without being recognized cause of the fame it was going to bring her, which I’m sure she didn’t believe at first. And that honesty is probably what helped her decide to work with Kelly, after producing The Tour of Life. So yes, I believe that there was frustration with Andrew taking a lot of the roles she wanted to do when making the album, and because of her age and gender her influence was not as strong as it should have been.
IN THIS PHOTO: Kate Bush in 1978 for the ‘Redhead 2’ shot by Gered Mankwoitz
You have noted how Lionheart is a Queer/L.G.B.T.Q.I.A.+-friendly/focused album. Is this an aspect that resonated with you? Do you feel people in 1978 realized how progressive and unconventional this was for an artist?
Besides the obvious inclusion of the line in Wow, “He’s too busy hitting the Vaseline”, while patting her bum…so you know what she’s referring to. And the Queer couple that are central to the narrative she creates in Kashka from Baghdad. I think the performance and the theatricality makes the album more Queer-focused than her others. The podcast, Strange Phenomena, brought up that when Kate performs, she really performs in this camp stylings that she puts her whole heart into, which I like to call ‘sincere camp’. Camp that is imbued with sincerity and love, and not as a form of shade or mockery like a lot of camp is played out. The exaggeration is played very straight. Her shifting in identities and performance also calls to mind drag culture, theatricality and the concept of passing, which with the acceptance of trans and non-binary individuals would resonate with their experiences. Ran Tan Waltz, where she is literally performing in drag - as a drag king in fact - bring this to the forefront. And losing the hat with her long hair flowing muddles the gender line, as well as Stewart Avon-Arnold himself taking his wig off at the end and glancing at the camera.
Even the front cover of Lionheart with the lion costume obscures her gender signifiers with the bulky costume hiding her shapely form, and her hair looking like an exaggerated mane, calling to mind large wigs worn by drag performers. Hammer Horror with the narrative of a stage actor being haunted by the ghost of the lead whose role he took speaks to this theatrical performativity. In Search of Peter Pan sees her use male pronouns: “When I am a man I will be an astronaut and find Peter Pan”. Also, she brings up how she as a man keeps a pin-up of Peter Pan almost, like a homosexual crush.
It resonated with me because I don’t feel particularly feminine most days, and there are some days I dress and try to perform more masculine depending on the circumstances - and it brings a sense of comfort.
I think people did realize in 1978 that this was very progressive. She performed Kashka from Baghdad on the family program, Ask Aspel, a year before Margaret Thatcher and her Conservative faction came to full power with its anti-gay legislation, including the Section 28, which I’m sure you recall. It also calls to mind Thatcher’s opposition to immigration, especially from non-western countries. I had a film professor named Dr. Bose who went to graduate school in England, having immigrated from India…and remembered Thatcher saying, “We are being swamped with immigrants”. And the song speaks to the humanity of not just gay men, but to the humanity of immigrants who are also people of color - which was a needed message, and still needed now, especially in America, where people who come from primarily Islamic nations are heavily discriminated against. It also brings in found families and the communities outsiders feel being disowned for being different, as these two men have found a family together. And Kate as the innocent voyeur wants to be a part of that found family too.
“Andrew Powell’s spontaneity was not conducive to her perfectionistic way of working, so this tour with full control gave her confidence, along with the standing ovations it received”
My top three songs from Lionheart are Symphony in Blue, Wow and Kashka from Baghdad. Do you have favourite songs from the album?
I love Hammer Horror and it was the first song from the album I fell in love with, with her performance echoing Lon Chaney and gothic horror tropes you would see in German expressionist cinema, with the realization that her actor character is murdered within the song is hauntingly beautiful to see and listen too. I also love the aforementioned In Search of Peter Pan and Full House, which hilariously Ron Moy in his book, Kate Bush and the Hounds of Love, brought up was a song he never returns to, which is a shame, cause it really conveys the sense of not only anxiety, but being neurodivergent. It is like this constant reminder of being yourself and not letting the thoughts overcome your judgment or distract you from daily tasks.
In 1979, Bush embarked on her Tour of Life. How instrumental and influential do you feel the experience of recording Lionheart was to her decision to take this creative control and mount a huge tour?
I think The Tour of Life was very influential in how she wanted to have control. And of course since she was footing the bill for most of the production, no thanks to EMI not having as much faith in her as they should have, this gave her a way to leverage her influence to all facets of production. Andrew Powell’s spontaneity was not conducive to her perfectionistic way of working, so this tour with full control gave her confidence, along with the standing ovations it received. Though, I think Kate realizing how much she hated flying, and the untimely death of her lighting tech Bill Duffield, led to her fear of touring and performing live again until 2014. And that does not even scratch the surface on how influential The Tour of Life was for future performers being the first one with a head mic, and with skits and magic tricks; with the indelible opening with Kate emerging from an egg being copied by Lady Gaga decades later.
“I agree that “Lionheart” is significantly overlooked”
I think it is unusual she opted for Hammer Horror as the first single – whereas Wow or Symphony in Blue (which was released as a single in Japan) would have made more sense. Maybe she wanted something very different and weirder to detach herself from The Kick Inside. Are there any songs on the album you think should have been a single?
I am of the opposite opinion, in that I find that Hammer Horror is a remarkable single, cause it already had a story that she could choreograph with Anthony Van Laast. And since Kate loves performing with her songs to match the narrative there was a chance to be very creative, which shows with Gary/Anthony lifting and spinning her around, as a form of interpretative dance conveying a haunting and a murder. And it’s interesting that both Wuthering Heights and Hammer Horror are ghost songs, except with her playing the ghost in Wuthering Heights and then performing the role of the victim in Hammer Horror being haunted by the ghostly spectre.
I think the only two contenders for singles from the album I would promote would be In Search of Peter Pan and Kashka from Baghdad, especially since she only performed In Search of Peter Pan during the Tour of Life…and it’s such an enchanting song.
PHOTO CREDIT: Claude Vanyeye, 1979
Not many place Lionheart as their favourite Kate Bush album. In fact, for most it would be in their bottom three. I think it is hugely underrated. What would you say to people who overlook and dismiss the album?
I agree that Lionheart is significantly overlooked. And even though it’s in my bottom three, but higher than Director’s Cut, I like to tell people that Kate Bush has never released a bad album. With the appreciation from Queer fans such as the podcast Strange Phenomena and Dr D-M Withers, I think it will be looked upon as an essential album that deserves recognition for pushing Kate’s artistry to a whole new level that continued with Never for Ever and The Dreaming. I think people dismiss it because they see it as B-side songs that did not make it onto The Kick Inside - which is a fair point, but it makes the album sound like a throwaway one, instead of an essential part of her discography.
I think all of Kate’s albums deserve their due because Kate is just one of the most essential artists in Pop music history, and every Indie female singer and experimental artist owes her a debt to opening the doors to new possibilities in music, lyrically and compositionally.
IN THIS PHOTO: Kate Bush during an outtake from the ‘Redhead’ shoot in 1978/PHOTO CREDIT: Gered Mankowitz
Lionheart turns forty-five in November. I can’t see any podcasts or features exploring this important and under-appreciated record. (I believe Never for Ever, a song never released, was recorded at this time). What would be the best way to mark its forty-fifth anniversary do you think?
I think Lionheart does deserve praise, and the anniversary should be written about or discussed in a podcast. I know Ann Powers from National Public Radio did a special on the 40th anniversary for her favorite Kate Bush album The Dreaming, which funnily enough she could only do with the BBC because NPR (in our native America) had no interest in a whole hour-long feature on a Kate Bush album that was not Hounds of Love. Lionheart is a special album that found its way to becoming an underrated album that many Queer fans found a special place in their hearts for, and I am so happy she made it.
Finally, and for being a good sport, you can choose one song from Lionheart to end with. What do you want to go with?
The song I am going to pick is probably an obvious choice, but I am going with the first single, Hammer Horror - the unofficial spiritual sequel to Wuthering Heights. It reminds me “to keep the lights on to ease my soul”.