FEATURE:
A Good SPIN
IN THIS PHOTO: Kate Bush on the set of her short film, The Line, the Cross and the Curve in 1993
Looking Back at a 1994 Kate Bush Interview and a Different Approach
__________
I wanted to come back…
IN THIS PHOTO: Laura Dern shot for Elle Spain (January 1994 edition) in 1993 in Los Angeles, California/PHOTO CREDIT: Lance Staedler/Corbis Outline via Contour RA by Getty Images
to a 1994 intervbiew that appeared in SPIN. It was a conversation between Kate Bush and Laura Dern. I recently featured it in another piece, where I discussed Kate Bush and her relationship with female interviewers. Perhaps more evident earlier in her career, there was a certain amount of hostility. Bush more comfortable being interviewed by men, or feeling like it would be easier to control the conversation and narrative. Women perhaps steelier or a bit edgy towards Bush. Thew dynamic maybe not something Bush was used to or felt comfortable doing. That changed later in her career. In fact, some of her best interviews ever have been with women. I feel an interview that sees Bush at her most comfortable and open is with actress Laura Dern. One of the most respected women in Hollywood, it was great that This clear Kate Bush fan had a chance to talk with her in 1994. I wanted to comment on the interview, as it leads to that idea of celebrity admiration. Kyle McLachlan and Rayvn Lenae recently chatted about Kate Bush and her magic. It was great to hear these very different and big names show love to Kate Bush. It is important that journalists and broadcasters interview Kate Bush. In terms of the perspective they provide. Also, they work for music publications and radios. There are not many opportunities for high-profile names to interview someone like Kate Bush. Though you would love to see Kyle McLachlan or Rayvn Lenae chat with Kate Bush. They bring something that you would not get from other interviewers. How she impacts their works. If there is another studio album from Bush, you know there will be a long list of admirers who want to chat with her. Having an artist interview Kate Bush would be amazing. I am not sure how giving and open Kate Bush will be in terms of promotion if another album does come.
It takes me to that Laura Dern interview. I do not know how that commission came about. In terms of where she was in her career, Dern appeared in prior to that 1994 interview, she had this amazing run. Jurassic Park in 1993. In 1991, she appeared in the acclaimed Rambling Rose. In 1996, Dern would appear in Citizen Ruth. This incredible actress doing these varied and amazing projects. She might have seen something in Kate Bush that was similar to her. The way her music changed the decisions Bush made. I am sure Laura Dern was known to Bush and she watched her films. Dern was twenty-seven when she interviewed Kate Bush. Bush was thirty-five. She released The Red Shoes and, The Line, the Cross and the Curve in 1993. It got its premiere then but a wider release in 1994. A reason, possibly, that they were put together. It may have seemed like a bit of a publicity stunt at the time, but this was actually two very similar-minded people enjoying a great conversation. Here is the interview. Another reason for highlighting this intervbiew is because I feel The Line, the Cross and the Curve is a great short film that people should check out. If it is good enough for Laura Dern, then that should compel people to seek it out:
“What do you say when someone has truly inspired you? How do you express to an artist how deeply their work has affected you? Well, for better or worse, I just had my opportunity.
I wanted to ask Kate Bush every obvious fan question in the book. I wanted to let her know how much her work means to me. I wanted to ask the right questions.
I have no conscious memory of our conversation, because I went into some altered state of panic. Luckily, I realized that my duty of being Lois Lane, reporter extraordinaire, would get in my way. So I just tried to chat with Kate.
With the release of her new album, The Red Shoes, Kate was in the U.S. for her first visit since 1989. She and I have both recently completed our directorial debuts on short films -- hers, a 50-minute feature, The Line, The Curve and The Cross, which links six of the new songs through a fairy tale.
How fantastic it was to speak with her! It was so unusual to hear that magical voice that I've heard singing into my inner ear (through headphones) since 1985. I remember first encountering Kate's music while filming Blue Velvet. I listened to Hounds of Love, and instantly felt I had found what I always longed for music to be: a discovery of self, a journey full of imagery and passion; and now this voice, this creator and I were having a conversation.
SPIN: Tell me about your new short film, The Line, The Curve and The Cross. I understand that Michael Powell, the director of the old classic movie The Red Shoes, is a hero of yours. Is your film adapted from his?
Kate Bush: It was something I thought of when we finished the album: to make a short film that would include some of the songs from the record but also tell a story. The only stuff I've worked on before has been short videos.
You can feel that there was this awe from Laura Dern. She was this huge actress, but quite early on her career. That link of the two of them directing short films. That Blue Velvet mention links to Kyle Kyle McLachlan, so it would be great if he got to interview Kate Bush! The two were in different stages of their career in terms of acclaim. Laura Dern maybe still seen as a rising actress and Jurassic Park was her biggest role. She was taking on all these interesting films. From huge-budget flicks to something smaller. Bush had enjoyed her regency and, by 1994, there was a bit of a downturn in terms of reviews and fortunes. In 1994, there was a bit of a depression that shadowed Kate Bush. She did struggle and was stepping away from the spotlight. Still promoting by the time the SPIN interview came out, I can imagine that this interview was a lot more of a pleasurable prospect than traditional ones. Bush might have had a reputation for not always clicking with female interviewers. Laura Dern, this massive fan, impossible not to love! I like how there was talk about directing:
Spin: You've directed almost all of yours for years now.
KB: But I've never done anything like this before, and it was just such an education for me. I think the most demanding thing was being in it as well as directing, and I don't think I'd do that again. I found it very difficult --just having the sheer stamina. But what a wonderful experience, and it's so different from making an album because you've got this big group of people all working together on something that has to be done quickly and the albums are almost completely opposite to that.
Spin: I've read in interviews where you talk about how exciting it's been for you in the process of mixing, and I thought to myself, "Oh my God, as a director what an exciting new world that must be for you, with all that you can do with the visual side." Were you like a kid in a candy store?
KB: To a certain extent, but we were very restricted by having no money and so little time. But some of it was so new to me -- like working with dialogue, which I found fascinating. I really enjoyed it. The film is meant to be like a modern fairy tale. We worked on it so intensely and it's not been finished for very long, so it's really difficult for me to know what people will think of it and whether they'll get a sense of story from it.
Spin: The thing I remember when I was a teenager and saw The Red Shoes was the struggle of this woman's: having to choose between being a dancer and being with her man. That the passion for love and the passion for dance couldn't coexist really affected me. I don't know what you think about that. I hope to believe -- well, I hope to believe a lot of things -- but I hope to believe that we can be consummate artists as women or revolutionaries, or whatever women want to be, and also have love, not only for ourselves but from a partner.
KB: I have to believe that too. It's just not fair to think that it's not possible. But I suppose the consuming nature of being obsessed with one's work, or one's art, is obviously something that we probably all struggle with to try to find a balance”.
Spin: In interviews, people always refer to you as this great perfectionist. Do you agree with that? Do you perceive yourself that way?
KB: Well, if perfectionist means taking a long time, then I would agree with it. But I really don't think that it's possible to make things perfect, really. In some ways, there's almost an attempt to try to achieve something that is quite imperfect. Do you know what I mean? And to be able to find a way of leaving it with certain raw edges, so that the heart doesn't go out of it. I don't think of myself as a perfectionist at all.
Spin: Critics, especially men, seem to describe women who are brilliant at what they do as perfectionists or loners or difficult to get at. I always find that so hilarious because I think someone who is connected to their work must be easier to reach than others.
KB: I think so too, it's just that maybe they're going to be a little more weary.
That last question is particularly interesting. Laura Dern must have had some difficult experiences with male interviewers. I don’t think a female interviewer would ask a question like that. Laura Dearn approaching music as a creative herself. An actress’s perspective. It is an interesting dynamic. That insightful look into The Red Shoes. It must have been refreshing for Bush to get these type of questions. To discuss The Red Shoes (1948). Influencing The Red Shoes album and arguably the first visual album by a female artist. How many other women before Kate Bush had released a visual album? Had Janet Jackson or Madonna done that? I am curious how America took to The Line, the Cross and the Curve. The Red Shoes reached twenty-eight in the US Billboard 200. It did not get many great reviews, though the commercial impact was impressive. I do think that The Line, The Cross and the Curve has some wonderful moments.
Spin: Do you struggle to balance your desire to keep a raw, spiritual edge to your music and a need to make the music accessible? Do you feel confident enough to just express what you believe and hope the audience catches up?
KB: There's kind of a driving force involved in the whole process of putting music together, to ultimately ending up with a finished album. I think there's a lot of stuff that I don't even question until other people come in and listen to the music, and it's almost like suddenly you're listening to things through other people's ears. I suppose that's when it gets a bit difficult. Sometimes I'm aware that things were actually a little more personal than I'd realized. But I suppose I feel if, when you are actually creating something, it feels kind of honest, it feels good, then that's the point where the intenion matters, and then from that point onwards it's just a matter of being brave enough to actually let it go.
Spin: That's why I've always loved film more than theater, and film may be more closely related to making a record because you have that ability to go in and do your work and have no judgment around it, and feel honest. Then, much later, it's presented to people. But in theater, people come backstage after a performance and you're about to do the same play again the next night, and people say, "Well, I didn't really believe that emotion" or whatever. It's really hard for me, I like to be closed up and just do the work.
KB: That's a very interesting observation, I'd not actually thought of it like that, but you're quite right. Films are kept very personal for quite a long time.
Kate Bush being asked about that raw edge in her music. Arguably, The Red Shoes suffered because of its production and a less warm sound. The C.D. age where things with edgy and actually a bit tin-like ands compressed. The Red Shoes arguably more commercial and less open and raw than The Sensual World (1989) and Hounds of Love (1985). It is interesting, as most major actors who have had a career for as long as Laura Dern have appeared in plays. Dern has focused on film and T.V. I can see why she would not like a play. That repetition or that crisis from the audience. That reaction from the audience could impact other performances. With a film, you keep things secret until it reaches cinemas. The work is done, so you do not get the pressure and that demotivating reaction.
By the start of 1994, Bush was looking to step away from promotion. Her mother died 1992, and she really only had chance and space to grieve after the completion of The Red Shoes. Though she stepped right into The Line, the Cross and the Curve. She was still carrying a lot of that loss around. Also, there was this negative reaction to he album and film. The first time in her career where she had this sort of backlash. Together with fatigue and grief, it was an impossibly hard time. She was married to Dan McIntosh and happy with him, though it was still a difficult period. She gave birth to her son, Berie, in 1998:
Spin: I've always been so curious to know if there are certain of your own songs or albums that you feel most proud of, or most connected to?
KB: I suppose, like most people, I tend to feel closest to the work I've most recently done. In a lot of ways, it's like extracts from a diary: If you look back at things in your past and consider events, it's like, "Oh God, no." You tend to feel differently about things as you move through two or three years. And I suppose also, hopefully, you like to think that you are getting better at what you do, more mature in your craft. Quite soon after that, there comes a point where you just want to do something completely different from the most recent piece of work in order to shake it off.
Spin: Have you ever gone back and either thought about songs you've written, or listened to your music from years before, and learned something you hadn't recognized, or understood something that at the time you didn't understand?
KB: I'm not sure I've ever reinterpreted something, but I have definitely been able to hear things in a different way from how I did at the time. I very rarely listen to any of my old music; it's the last thing I ever want to do. But occasionally I end up in a situation where I do, and if enough time has gone by, I can actually hear how I would do things differently.
Spin: But if art is a contribution, and I certainly know that your music has been, the one thing that I'm excited about as a listener is that you've been at different places in your life and have written pieces of music where you may now think, "if I had only done it that way," but somehow the place you were at allowed you to write it that way and it affected people who were in the same place.
KB: There was a reason for it happening then.
Spin: I've always wanted to ask you if you have interests in the shadow side, in understanding the repressed self -- things we are in denial about.
KB: Creative art is an awfully positive way of channelling the shadow side, and I think it's much more healthy to explore it and have fun with it within the boundaries of art. I'm not sure that it's something terribly good to go looking for. Do you know what I mean? I think it's actually something that ends up coming to you anyway”.
It is an interesting end to the interview. Those questions around reappraisal and looking back at her work. Bush would revisit songs from The Red Shoes for 2011’s Director’s Cut. Quite spooky that Laura Dern asked the question. Not that she knew these songs would need to be rewarded but, as Bush has been releasing music since 1978, she must have felt that some of her songs could be done better or she was not completely happy with them. This 1994 SPIN interview brings different sides out of Kate Bush. I wanted to bring it back to the fore. I would love if Laura Dern got the chance to speak to Kate Bush again. Or a superfan like Kyle McLachlan. There are publications where artists can speak toother artists. Or someone well-known chats with an artist. I find journalists and broadcaster ask the same questions and they approach Bush’s music in a way that can be samey. Actors come at it from another angle. There have been some terrific Kate Bush interviews through the years, though this 1994 loving chat between two amazing women…
MIGHT be the very best.